Hi Porchers,

I had a couple questions about picking the right western saddle for a mule.

A lot of people have been pushing me to fiberglass trees. I wanted to find out if you guys thought those were a good choice. Sounds kind of flimsy to me, but I don't have enough experience to know or not.

Second, I'm seeing FQHB on many of them, but I wanted to find out if that is a good choice for a straight backed mule? Someone told me once that the type of bars have something to do with the shape of the horse/mule's back, so I'm not sure if these saddles should be avoided or not.

Also, if there is any brand or recommendations you guys and gals have for good saddles that fit mules, I'd love to hear about it.

Thank you!

-Cori

First off, you need to do a lot of research on the difference between a horse barred saddle and mule bar saddle. Then the difference between a horse's and mule's back.

There are some mules that can be fitted with a horse barred saddle, and not all mule barred saddles will fit every mule. Not to get into deeply which can take pages of text, but the mule's back is straighter from back to front than a horse's. There is no significant dip right behind the withers that a horse has. Consequently a mule barred saddle has less "rock" built into it from to back.

Then you get into the question of where to put the saddle on a mule vs a horse. The bars of the saddle on a mule must be set back such that the with the normal stride of a mule, the shoulder blade does not impinge on the bars. In addition you need to learn about britching or croupers and their use in keeping the saddle back off the mule's neck, shoulder blades and the cincha out of it's armpit

I'm not going to reccomend a brand because there are those out there that say their saddles will fit any mule. That just isn't true. Mules come from all breed of horses, quarter, thorobred, tennessee walker, Arab etc., etc., etc., Every one of those takes different tree.

So selecting FQHB, 3/4 Arab,etc., only comes into play and each particular mule. It depends on the size, width shape of the back of the mule. A three year old mule will take a different saddle than a 7year old mule and a 30 years old mule will probably take something different. So if you want to do it right, you are going to have to buy more than one saddle.

Some mules are fairly tolerable of a less than good fitting saddle. Some are less so and they end up telling you in an more violent manner with you getting your head augered into the dirt A mule will long remember the pain caused by a poor fitting saddle and you will have hard time fixing that.

As for the material the tree is made out of, that depends on what you will use the saddle for. Roping, cow work etc., demands a heavy tree. Usually wood with a bull hide cover that will stand up to rough duty. These saddles usually weigh in at 40 pounds or so. Fiberglas trees cover a wide range, but the most well known is Rawlide. These saddles are lighter in weight but won't withstand such rough use, but they are pretty sturdy.

I have one I had built about twenty years ago by a local saddle maker here, as I had a bad back and my stock saddle was too heavy. I had the horn double reinforced with steel bars as I was leading a lot of pack strings and I wanted something I could dally off for those times when a mule decided it wanted to go a different direction than I did or I wanted to drag logs into camp for the fire.I still have that saddle today and I use it 3-4 times a week. Without cincha it weighs 28 pounds. No doubt,I have put several thousand miles on it. So besides the tree, it also makes a difference on how well the entire saddle is built.

Then you have the all synthetic nylon saddle. I guess they work ,because people buy them. You won't find any with mule bars. Personally I wouldn't ride one. I figure nylon belongs on a woman's legs and leather belongs on a mule. JMHO.

I highly recommend before you put out money for a saddle that you get on your computer and search for everything you can find about fitting saddle to a mule , check your library, check Amazon.com. Do not buy one mail order, unless guaranteed you can send it back. Nothing wrong with a used saddle that has been taken care of and then you don't have to worry about getting the squeaks out.

Forty years ago when mules were just starting to take off in popularity I would have given good money for the advice I I just typed here and there are clinicians that today make good money teaching seminars about it. You would not be spending your money unwisely if you attended one of those seminars.

I don't know who to tell you makes a good mule saddle. Custom is going to be expensive, but I'm sure there are some reputable production companies making them. What I can tell you is there are two types of fiberglass trees. First, there is a fiberglass-covered tree, which is a wood tree wrapped in fiberglass for strength. A wood tree without any covering has very little strength. The traditional covering for quality wood trees is rawhide. In my opinion, there is nothing better. Second is a hollow fiberglass tree. They are lightweight, I assume cheap to produce, and absolute junk, again, in my opinion. There is so little material for the screws to tap into, that most of the screws are stripped out when they're put in new. Fit seems to be poor on the ones I've seen. I wouldn't use a hollow fiberglass tree if it was given to me. They are unsafe. The fiberglass-covered trees seem to hold up pretty well, and there are tree makers in this country producing them. The down side, for anyone that has to work on them, is that you have to pre-drill most of your nail holes, and at the end of the day, you itch like crazy! As far as the Full QH bars, I've found that most horse owners don't even know what they're talking about when they talk about a saddle bar and have never seen a bare tree. I laugh at the pictures of saddles for sale where there's a ruler between the front of the skirts and the ad states the gullet width. There is NO accurate way to measure a saddle gullet once the saddle is put together. It can only be done on a bare tree. A saddle with Full QH bars refers to the angle of the bar and usually has a gullet that measures over 6-3/4". Search for Rod Nikkel saddle trees and he goes into detail explaining tree parts and measurements. There is a ton of good information there and on other tree makers sites, although it can be a bit overwhelming to someone who isn't a saddlemaker. While never having built a saddle for a mule, I have built a good many for horses of all types, and I would imagine that mules vary in back type and shape as much as horses do. Look in a Mules and More magazine and talk to some of the guys building mule saddles that advertise in there, if you haven't already done so. Saddle fit is a pretty detailed subject, and a saddle that fits a mule (or horse) when he's 5 may not fit him when he's 12. Many behavioral issues can be caused by poor and painful fit, and by the same token, saddle fit gets blamed for some behavioral issues that are just that: behavioral issues and nothing more. If you don't know where to start when fitting a saddle, you'd do well to pay someone to help you that knows what they're doing. Even if you don't order a saddle from a custom maker, if you offer to pay them to help you figure out what's going to fit your mule, most of them would be happy to help.

Vince has good advice as well, but Ralide is a brand of plastic trees. Hot plastic is poured into a mold and then cooled. It is not fiberglass. Ralide is relatively inexpensive, but air bubbles are trapped inside the plastic and I see a lot of breakage, even on brand new trees. You are also very limited by fit with a Ralide tree. Lots of swell styles, but a very limited width and bar angle selection. Ralide trees, since their introduction in the late '60's or early '70's, have been used in more saddles than any other type of tree. They do have their place, but no custom maker would ever consider using one.

Vince, you mention going to a seminar and I did just that a couple years ago. I attended one hosted by a well know mule trainer saddle maker and learned a lot. The only thing I don't know about is his claim his saddles will fit mule and donkeys no matter the breed or size. I was ready to buy a saddle but at the time I didn't have the extra money. I talked to him after the seminar and he claimed they would fit my Belgian mule and my saddle mule. I wish I knew if this was true or just a sales pitch as I would be happy to buy one.

There has been several articles about mule saddle fitting by Terry Wagner in Western Mule magazine.

Terry also has web page. threebellsmule.com where you can submit questions.

Thank you both for your advice. I have saved what you've written encase I can't find this thread in the future and I just know it's going to help me. I appreciate all you guys have said about the fiberglass trees. I was worried that they might not be sturdy, but I'm not planning on doing any roping so it's good to know that I can go with the lighter weight saddle.

Thanks very much! I can't tell you how valuable this information is to me.

Hi Cori,
We build our trees to fit the mules. The Ralide trees will usually have too much rock. We build a wood fiberglass covered tree with the Mule bars and I will build them with the needed width and bar spread. Check out my website at www.wyomingsaddlery.com and you will see that we can custom build you a saddle at a good price.
I send trees out for fitting and I will guarantee the fit of any saddle.
Thank you

PaulK. I am pretty sure I know who the held the seminar you went. His saddles do not fit every mule and he spends a lot of time at his seminars selling his tack. As an example, I have little 13-2 hd mule about 750 pounds and another 15hd mule at 1100 pounds. The same saddle would not fit both.

Sharon. I wasn't advertising for Ralides ,just explaining. I have a plastic tree in my custom saddle. Don't know what the exact composition is, but it has been used hard for twenty years or so and is still going strong. I had this one built due to my weight restrictions of lifting. There is nothing wrong with fiberglass or plastic tree if it is made right and is matched for the use it was intended for. As mention getting a good fit might be hard. As mentioned Ralide trees have probably been used in more manufactured saddles than any other type in the last thirty years. If person could get a good fit they will serve as a pleasure saddle.

I'm not sure, but don't figure Cori is going to spring for $2k for a custom saddle at present. Just a guess on my part though.

There is one brand of saddle that is manufactured type, but can be ordered with custom options to some extent, including mule bars.

Those are Dakota saddles which have a Steele tree in them. About $800 new. I had one and it held up very well. But looking at others who had bought them and mine, they are a bit narrow in the gullet. They seem to fit fined boned mules with a thinner frame, but not a full figured mule as I call them. My Fox Trotter mule was put down last year so I sold that saddle. My complaint was they stirrup rigging was set to far back and I like mine more forward. That is just my personal preference though.

Bill. I looked over your web site and they are indeed some nice looking saddles and priced very economically.